A couple months ago, I was in a meeting at work to view some upcoming TV pilots. One of the network sales women said something (I’m still not sure what it was) and caused our media manager to immediately turn to her and demand “Are you a TURTLE??”
“Uh… no…?” the woman stammered back, clearly confused by this sudden query.
“Oh. Never mind. It’s a drinking thing,” replied the media manager, which naturally caused MY ears to perk up and put the booze-sodden brain on alert mode.
Later that day, I popped into the media manager’s office to ask her what that whole turtle/ drinking thing was about. This is the woman who keeps magnum-sized bottles of vodka in her office, received as gifts from various clients. She’s horribly sarcastic and incredibly amusing, especially in drab meetings, and seems to know most people worth knowing in Boston. She said the turtle question was part of a drinking club from back in the day, and dug through her purse until she found a battered and folded index card. “Would you like to be a turtle?”
“Sure,” I replied.
“Ok then,” and she proceeded to read the speech printed on the card:
We assume all prospective Turtles own a Jack Ass. This assumption is the reason for the password. [UPDATE: This refers to the donkey of a sweet and kindly disposition that all Turtles are rumored to possess.]
This password must be given if you are ever asked by a fellow member, “Are you a Turtle?” You MUST then reply “You bet your sweet ass I am.” If you do not give the password in full because of embarrassment or some other reason, you forfeit a beverage of his choice. So always remember the password. [UPDATE: According to the official rules by Supreme Imperial Turtle Denis P. McGowan, “the negligent Turtle to forfeit an adult beverage to all Turtles present and/or within earshot.”]
As all members are of clean mind to become an official Turtle the person must solve the following riddles with clean-minded correct answers [UPDATE: Called the Sublime Test of the Four Questions]:
1. What is it a man can do standing up, a woman sitting down, and a dog on three legs?
2. What is it that a cow has four of and woman has only two of?
[UPDATE: An alternative official question is: What goes into a woman’s mouth hard and comes out soft and sticky?]
3. What is a four letter word ending in ‘k’ that means the same as intercourse?
4. What is it on a man that is round, hard, and sticks so far out of his pajamas that you can hang a hat on it?
After some prompting, I managed to come up with the four answers, and she proclaimed me a member of The Order of the Turtles. Now that I was officially in the club, I was even more intrigued. An old school drinking club? AWESOME. Was this a local thing, or well-known? When did it start? As near as I can piece together from various interweb sources, the story begins back in WWII, when Captain Hugh P. McGowan of the U.S. Army Air Corps 8th Air Force was a bomber pilot stationed in England. In his words:
We had seen a sign showing that the ‘Ancient Order of Foresters’ and the ‘Royal Antedeluvian Order of Buffalos’ would meet in the local pub, and so I asked the governor of the pub what was that all about? The pub’s governor told us that the clubs’ local branches would meet in the pub’s back room, and that he would give them reduced prices for their pints and drinks for holding their meetings at his pub.
I asked him if our club could meet there, and he agreed, and asked for the name of our club.
I told him that we were the ‘Ancient and Honorable Order of Turtles,’ and it stuck.
I devised the name ‘Ancient and Honorable Order of Turtles’ for the fun of it. It soon spread throughout the bomber pilots, then the fighter pilots, and soon to other bombing groups and squadrons, and to other air bases. We even initiated members of the other Services, and soon,
even Allied pilots were being initiated as Turtles in the backrooms of pubs across England.
The Order was not meant to be serious, as it had no constitution or by-laws, no formal applications for membership, no dues or fees, and a simple initiation ritual. It was a relief from the horrors and dangers we saw every day on our missions. It spread after the War through the VFW and American Legion posts, and eventually, to colleges and even to the high schools of the U.S.A.
Now you’re talking my language. They were in a pub, and noticed that groups and clubs got discounted drinks, so they made up their own. When they got home, it spread throughout the country, and was apparently quite well known in the 1950s and 60s. There were “Turtle Parties” to recruit new members, complete with rituals, membership cards and little turtle lapel pins. Anyone else feel like drinking was a lot more fun back then? There’s even a Turtle Creed which states:
They think clean, have fun a lot, and recognize the fact that
you never get any place worthwhile in life unless you stick your neck out.
[UPDATE: There’s also a secret grip, and hailing sign. The grip involves the phrase “Behold, my Brother! The secret grip of the Turtles! Feel the alcohol pulsing through each other’s veins!” The hailing sign requires the statement “Behold, my Brother! The hailing sign of the Turtles! See the noble Turtle sticking his head out of his shell, seeking his next drink to imbibe!” AWESOME]
When I said it was quite well known in the ’60s, I wasn’t joking. Freaking astronauts were doing it. I guess that makes sense, since a lot of them started off as military pilots. From Wikipedia:
[UPDATE: I wrote to Supreme Imperial Turtle Denis McGowan for some further details on the club and he included this in his reply:
“Brother Schirra, a U.S. Navy Captain and Naval Aviator who flew 90 combat missions during the Korean War, was asked the famous question if he was a Turtle during Brother Schirra’s Mercury flight, when a fellow astronaut and Turtle, Brother Donald Kent “Deke” Slayton (March 1, 1924 – June 13, 1993), a U.S. Air Force Captain who had flown 56 combat missions during World War II, had radioed up to Brother Schirra asking Brother Schirra if he was a Turtle. The entire world would have heard Brother Schirra’s response, so he switched off the radio speaker when he replied, in order to avoid the penalty of having to purchase a drink for all Turtles within earshot, and to avoid providing what might have been interpreted as a crude answer.
Brother Schirra got even with Brother Slayton during Apollo 7’s flight, when he wrote “Deke Slayton, are you a Turtle?” on a large object in front of the cameras for the NASA Public Affairs Officer, Brother Paul P. Haney, the “Voice of Mission Control,” and Brother Slayton to reply.
Brother Deke Slayton’s Turtle membership card and pin were auctioned off for $290.00 on April 22, 2006.”]
Dude, even the President was in on the joke. Again, from Wiki:
Ball-busting with JFK. Awesome.
So, how does this work? Well, once you become a member, you ask other members “Are you a turtle?” If they don’t respond with the proper password, they have to buy you a drink. That’s half the fun… you ask someone if they’re a turtle at a time when they’re caught off guard (the media manager does this all the time with her husband, and then demands champagne for her free drinks. I like her style) or when they can’t really reply with the proper password due to the word “ass.” Like an astronaut broadcasting worldwide from space, or a President at a press conference.
Yeah, now I’m betting you want to know how to become a turtle. Well, from other sites I’ve read, the initiation process can be very simple or very complicated, depending on the local chapter rules. Some make a game of it and place four drinks in front of the candidate before they answer the questions. Any vulgar or incorrect answer means the candidate takes a drink. A correct answer means everyone present takes a drink (including the candidate). Some chapters have different questions, but with the same basic theme: the obvious answer is vulgar, but the correct one is perfectly innocuous, though leading towards innuendo. Most of the information I found was on horrible Geocities, Tripod, and other free, terribly antique web servers. This makes sense given the advancing age of most original Turtles. However, I think it’s hilarious, and have jumped in and recruited several friends including the Lady Friend and Wifey, though I don’t think the Irish Lad has taken the plunge.
If anyone else has further knowledge of the Turtles, I’d love to hear about it. I am currently the self-proclaimed President of the Portland Maine chapter, until someone can prove otherwise. If you’d like to be initiated into the Ancient and Honorable Order of Turtles, feel free to comment and I’ll “officially” induct you. I’d really like to see if this thing is still going out there, or if we can bring it back, though I doubt we’ll get Obama into it; I don’t think he drinks as much as JFK did.
Also, this post was updated in several places after receiving a very informative email from Denis McGowan, the son of founder Cpt. Hugh McGowan. He currently holds the rank of Supreme Imperial Turtle, a title held by the successor to the founder. He very helpfully gave me a ton of “official” info on the Order, and I’ve tried to include it in the original post where possible.
Some other helpful links about the Order:
– A pretty detailed history
– The Wiki entry
– Another helpful turtle site
– Possibly the “official” site, since they own the domain name
– Another “official” and extensive page, with a fictionalized history of the Order
Are you a turtle?
You bet your sweet ass I am.
You just couldn’t resist, could you?
Hey, I want my free glasses of Champagne too!
You’ve got to catch me first. And that will never happen.
Already did 😛 Remember in the yard at your Funcle’s house?
Nope. Don’t remember. But I’d be willing to bet you’ve had plenty of free drinks since then.
I’m also in Boston, well, north of Boston. I’ve been poking around to see if there is some sort of Turtles group in the area. I’m interested in becoming one and this is the only local article I could find. Get any new information on it?
I don’t have any new information on the group… pretty much everything I was able to find went into that post. However, since being initiated, I have taken it upon myself to recruit many new members in the Boston area. If you like, we could meet up for an initiation in the city.
Absolutely. Feel free to get in touch via my email or twitter. I stay on top of both pretty well.
Just curious if you know where I can get one of the patches that is pictured above? My boyfriend collects patches and that would be his first official ybysaia patch! It would be so perfect! Thanks
The patch came from this website: http://www.swordofbunkerhill.org/aboutturtles.html
I’m not really sure where you might find those patches now, though ebay is prob a good bet. Most of the websites associated with the Turtles appear to be from the mid 1990s, judging from their designs.
There appears to be a turtle patch available here: http://www.ruaturtle.net/store_jewelry.htm
And also some others here: http://www.themaac.com/symbols2.html
Though I’m not sure if these business are still in operation or not.
I was recruited as a Turtle in 1982 by a co-worker. I’m retired and can’t find my card. Does anyone know how i can get a replacement? Email address. I will provide them the name of my recruiter.
Hi Glenn,
There are a couple of resources out there that I’ve found:
This one offers a replacement card: http://shop.turtlesinc.org/Memberships_c4.htm
This site offers a card with lapel pin: http://www.klitzner.com/-Turtle-Lapel-with-Gift-Card-%28carded%29.aspx?ptype=3&pid=1440
Hope they have what you’re looking for.
in 79 my aunt sign me up. I lost my card do I have to sign up a get thank you my name is eugene
YBYSAIA From clover s.c. been a turtle for probably 15 years now. Joined at the local shrine club and I am a card carrying member.
YBYSAIA Been a turtle for about 15 years. Joined at a local shrine club.
Clover S.C.
How can I go about getting membership cards. I. Can be reached by email @bfrance91@gmail.com
I became a member in the 70’s. as a member of Old Crows Chapter. I still have my original membership card, all though it is a bit ragged.
You would be suprised.. the younger generation is doing it and very intrested.. I became a member my sophomore year of college 2007… I need to replace my card.. I lost it after moving off campus.. mine was done in Daytona..anyone else no where I can get a new card
If you send a message to the guy on the “Ancient and Honorable Order of Turtles” Facebook page, he’ll likely send you some cards. He sent me some for new members I’ve recruited. Here’s the link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/66076395016/?ref=browser
You bet your sweet ass, I’m a Turtle. I became one at Hendrix College in Arkansas in the 80s. Our lead story was a bit different. We were told that the way the phrase came to be, was that an ancient and pure sect in the Middle East was having to keep their tribe secret, due to marauding outlaws. Since camels and jackasses were so important to their survival, betting on them would not be something they would take lightly. Therefore, if asked the phrase, “Are you a Turtle?” the respondent would not jeopardize the loss of his sweet ass, by betraying the tribe.
We had the whole ceremony: lights out, candles burning, the candidate in the center while the rest of the turtles formed a circle around him/her. There were four leaders and each asked one question each of the candidate. If the candidate got sick on an answer , the others would give hunts or even act out the answer. Once the candidate answered four questions, the four leaders huddled, discussing the worthiness of the candidate. Then lights were turned on and candles blown out and the candidate was welcomed into the fold.
That’s great! I’ve always wanted to put some more drama into the initiations I do.
I have been a Turtle since the mid 60s. I didn’t think I would find anything about this now. So nice to know the full story on how it got started. I was a pilot back in the very late 60s and early 70s, now I’m a 75 yo widowed lady that lives in central fl.
I am a new member at the age of 45. I love that you are on here. I also am in central fl, winter springs area.
YOU BET YOUR SWEET ASS I AM!!!!!
I want to be a turtle!
I have always wanted to be a Turtle but no one has asked me. My email is iammmk@ dcn.org.
You bet your sweet ass I am! And have been for almost 25 years. Is there a site to purchase pins
I would like to be initiated. I hope the offer is still open as this post is 5 years old.
On 09/07/2018 i was in EAGLES lodge post 3426 address: EAGLES N. Portland. 7611 N EXETER Ave. PORTLAND Oregon 97203 . Phone. 503 286. 8788. and found some Turtle patches for sale.
YBYSAIA! I recently became a Turtle. My grandmother passed in August. As my family was going through her things a well preserved “Turtles Outershell Division” member card was found. She was inducted by Dick Gordon and the card was also signed by Walter Schirra. I have become so curious and love all part of this fun club. I have started procuring new members. I would love to see this come back as big as it once was. I procured 3 friends a week ago. Today we are going to an all you can drink brunch so they can be presented with their cards and lapel pins.
I am/was a turtle back in college. My membership card has since disintegrated. I would very much like to obtain a new membership for myself and some extra cards so that I can induct new members.
You can get a new card and extras at http://www.turtleclub.us
I am currently the self-proclaimed President of the Frankfort Kentucky chapter of the Ancient and Honorable Order of Turtles unless someone can prove otherwise. I am capable of providing fodder for your donkey’s and goats. Turtles rule.
the official site is for sale.
My uncle was A Turtle from WW2. He was A Navy Seabee. He had an aluminum hardhat with the Turtle insignia on it and across the back was written Y. B. Y. S. A. I. A.
He wouldn’t tell us kid’s what it meant. I didn’t find out until the 1980’s!
Unfortunately, I can’t become A Turtle as I am A teetotaler!!
You bet your sweet ass I am
I lost or miss placed it in Nam?
Been a member since 1958.
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Where can I get a new card?
I found a card with label pin for $4 here: https://www.hkfraternal.com/-Turtle-Lapel-with-Gift-Card-(carded).aspx?ptype=3&pid=1440
Also some other items including cards here: https://turtleclub.us/turtle-club-store/
Good luck!
Ybysais
Hello, there! My parents were Turtles and I remember well the times they and others would the question, “Are you a Turtle.” I am now in my 60’s and both parents have passed on. I would love to start a local chapter! Can I be a member since I am genetically a Turtle (my father was a Turtle from WWII) before I was born.
I’m a Chicago turtle and relocated to Boston.
I’ve been a turtle since 1965.
LOL, I love this — I am a proud member of the Ancient and Honorable Order of Turtles since around 1976 when a sorority sister inducted me. I ALWAYS answer (though I am rarely asked unfortunately!) in the affirmative using the correct password.
How well I do recall when a young woman who worked in my dept. asked me if I was a Turtle.. What a hilarious way to break up the tense working pressure in a large Corporate Ops Center during the 1960’s. Somewhere, buried in my old trivia is my Turtle Club Membership Card .
May of my co-workers knew I had served a tour in the USAF &, in retrospect, that may be why I was first asked that now-iconic question under the presumption I had encountered it on my active duty time in USAF.
And, I do recall the story of the challenge to Deke Slayton while he was aloft!